Season 20: Episode 6 | What about my puppets? Beyond Programming to Worship that Changes Us

David, Charity, and Leo return with Ruth to continue their conversation from last week. In an episode that could have been titled, “Confessions of Professional Christians,” these four vulnerably and candidly share their own struggles with perfectionism at the cost of transformation. David gives us incredible insight into the difference between a diverse community and a reconciling community. Charity shares what has mattered most to her young family as they looked for a place to worship and Leo reveals his experience as a children’s pastor when the children ruined all his well intentioned plans with their beautiful human-ness. What does it look like to make space for worship that changes us?

This season we’re focusing on worship, particularly worship that is transformative. Our season long guest is Rory Noland and we will be working with his book, Transforming Worship: Planning and Leading Sunday Services as If Spiritual Formation Mattered. In addition to Ruth and Rory, we will also be bringing other guests into the conversations about worship with spiritual formation at its core. This season is for all who worship, not just pastors and leaders who plan the weekly services!

David M. BaileyDavid Bailey is a public theologian, culture maker, and catalyst focused on building reconciling communities. David is the founder and Chief Vision Officer of Arrabon, a spiritual formation ministry that equips the American Church to actively and creatively pursue racial healing in their communities. He is the co-author of the study series, A People, A Place, and A Just Society, and the executive producer of the documentary 11 am: Hope for America’s Most Segregated Hour and the Urban Doxology Project. David is rooted at East End Covenant Fellowship, serving on the preaching team, and his greatest honor is to be married to his wonderful wife, Joy.

Leo AyalaBorn and raised in Puerto Rico, Leo Ayala served as a family pastor for over 15 years and later as lead pastor. For four years, he has been recovering from burnout, anxiety disorder, and depression. On his journey to heal his soul and develop new life rhythms, he completed two years with the Transforming Center (TC15 and now TC19). He is finishing a DMin. in Spiritual Formation on the topic of spirituality during seasons of disorientation. He is a liaison pastor for the Caminando Juntos (Urban Strategies) program, where he looks to improve the holistic well-being of Latino pastors.

Charity McClureCharity McClure has served the Transforming Center in several capacities over the past 10 years, most recently as Director of Strategy and Communications. During this time her work has deepened her own longing, not only for a way of life that works, but a way of life that creates space for beauty, purpose and meaningful connection with those around her. Charity is a tentative writer, an optimistic traveler and a committed bruncher. She lives in Glen Ellyn, IL with her husband Kyle and our three children Finn, Rhys and Elin.

Rory NolandRory Noland is the director of Heart of the Artist Ministries, an organization dedicated to serving artists in the church. He mentors worship leaders, speaks at churches and conferences, leads retreats for artists, and consults with churches in the areas of worship and the arts. Rory is also a trained spiritual director, a published songwriter and has authored five books, including the best-seller, The Heart of the Artist: A Character-Building Guide For You and Your Ministry Team. Rory earned a Doctoral Degree from the Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies. He was part of TC2 and led worship for the The Transforming Center for fifteen years.

We are now accepting applications for Transforming Community 20! Use the code Podcast20 to receive $50 off your application fee. Learn more and apply HERE.



You can also access podcast on Stitcher and Spotify.

Listen to other episodes from Season 20 Access past podcast seasons

We are now accepting applications for Transforming Community 20! Use the code Podcast20 to receive $50 off your application fee. Learn more and apply HERE.

Mentioned in the episode:

Transforming Worship: Planning and Leading Sunday Services as If Spiritual Formation Mattered by Rory Noland


Urban Doxology

Theology of the Womb by Christine Angelle Bauman


Music Credit:

Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist
Anthem from Music in Solitude
Purge Me from Urban Doxology

Support the podcast! This season, patrons will receive bonus conversations, extra content and guided practices relating to Rory’s book.  Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!

The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self!

Transforming Center

We desire to see churches and Christian organizations become communities of authentic spiritual transformation – and that begins with transforming leaders. We seek to strengthen the souls of pastors and leaders, equipping them to guide their churches and organizations to become spiritually transforming communities that discern and do the will of God in their settings. Read more about the Transforming Center.
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What was The song you played at the end?

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